The Second Creative Zionist Circle was held on March 24, 2003, and focused on the question of whether or not Zionism is linked to the concept of social justice. Discussion began following an excerpt from Martin Buber on the possible directions for national movements, and an article by Avraham Burg on the end of Zionism in the modern Jewish state, and quickly led to a discussion on the goals of Zionism today--as Marla, a student from New York University, asked, "so know that we know what other people think, where do we think Zionism is going?"
In the next stage of the Circle, Ariel Beery, co-sounder of the Creative Zionist Circle and a student at Columbia University, presented his personal vision for the future of the Zionist movement. Ariel spoke about the need to reconnect Zionism with its roots in social justice, and that a practical application of such a reconnection could be for the Jewish people to begin to act collectively to assist the struggling minorities in the Middle East, including the Kurds, the Copts, etc, to gain freedom and respect from their respective countries. This led to the question of whether Zionism need necessarily be only connected to the state of Israel alone, or if Zionism could actually speak about more than a state - but rather, collective movement of the Jewish people towards some goal. While some of the participants agreed that Zionism could offer more than just a nationalistic movement for the Jewish people, others believed that Zionism without Israel as its focus was not Zionism at all.
Many more questions remained after the meeting- testament to the fact that the participants are searching for a meaningful definition of Zionism, Jewish peoplehood and the relationship of the State of Israel and the People of Israel to the World. The search will continue after Pesach, when the group will convene for the third Creative Zionist Circle.
The Zionist Circle was very good and I am telling people about it. I was really impressed of the people who came. I tend to get bored with the usual zionist slogans thrown around, and this was definitely a refreshing evening in that sense.
And now for a few comments:
I found ariel's presentation to be very interesting and as I said, refreshing like the rest of the evening, but there are a few flaws in it that must be addressed:
-The main problem of zionism today is its conflict with democratic values inside israel. Let us solve our own problems - that would be the minimum of Or l'goim; I think the idea of bringing democracy to the middle east is paternatlistic and has nothing to do with reality, considering that israel should learn itself some basic stuff about democracy.
-In general, and this is true about Ariel's talk and about the evening as a whole - the occupation wasn't talked about enough - THAT is the main problem that is threatening the future of Israel and the area. Ariel's talk also didnt seem to deal with main issuess that zionism has to deal with today in the more theoretical sense, as I mentioned during the evening.
-Also, I think there are a few misconceptions about Israel that have to be brought up - but I am sure that will come up during other discussion.
I think that in order for this circle to be successful, we need to take one step further than we did up until now. We need to question our narratives, that would be a good beginning. Also, talking about Zionism not in the context of the current conflict isn't productive.
Peace, Asaf.
Posted by: Asaf Shtull-Trauring at March 29, 2004 03:53 PMjust a comment.
i realized something while brushing my teeth today. if i consider myself a zionist but zionism is dead, then what can i call myself? i hate labels, but any concise label is far better than "person-not-quite-sure-what-she-wants-israel-to-be-in-the-future-but-nontheless-one-who-wants-the-best-for-the-country-and-for-all-people"
btw - MK Avraham Burg on Tuesday at Hebrew Union College at 7:30. call 212-998-4122 to RSVP.
Posted by: marla at March 29, 2004 03:57 PMThanks Asaf for your comments, but I disagree with your assertions.
Israel is one of the more democratic states in the world by any index. Arabs are represented in parliament, the High Court of Justice has been consistent in protecting minority rights, and no state (see France for example) has been more sensitive to the needs of the populace in regards to practicing their own religion. Think about the Waqf. Or see Palestinian opinion poll data which still shows that the Palestinians themselves see Israel as a model for democracy.
The occupation, as you call it, certainly has to end, but its end will not solve the problems plaguing the concept of Zionism. It will only make them stronger, and if we do not have a vision of Zionism to carry us through these testing times, we will not make it. Envisioning Zionism through the prism of the "occupation," therefore, is pointless and even detrimental.
As for Democracy in the Middle East, I never said Israel should or could export it. Rather, Zionists should support the desires of all the national minorities of the Middle East for equal representation and rights, and the State of Israel could have the resources to do so on a higher level than we could on our own.
Posted by: Ariel Beery at March 31, 2004 01:31 PMIsraeli Palestinians are discriminated in every possible way in Israeli society, except for the fact that they can vote. As Avrum Burg put it yesterday, if a Jewish minority would have been treated like this anywhere in the world, all American Jewry would be on its legs, demonstrating.
Also, considering that de facto (not yet to de juro) Israel is an undemocratic regime because of the occupation it is handling, I dont think we have much to offer to our neighbor minorities.
I definitely agree with you that zionism's problems wont end with the occupation. Actually my analysis of the current situation in Israel, is that the occupation (along with Lebanon etc.) is a symptom of a wider problem in Israeli society which much to do with its militarist ethos, which brings us back to Zionism again. Thats the connection we must do between zionism and occupation - unlike most of the zionist left, i dont see all our problems over when the occupation is over, because as oslo proved to us, the occupation will never be over if we dont deal with the deeper issues in this conflict.
The creative zionist circle should deal with these issues, but we must look at them in the current context. supperating zionism from the occupation is impossible.
Sorry Asaf, you're wrong on all counts.
First, Israeli-Arabs, or Israeli-Palestinians or just plain Israelis, are not barred from any professions or housing or, well, or anything. Yes, there is some ways to go until full economic equality is reached, just as there is between men and women all over the world, but there are thousands of Israeli-Arab doctors and lawyers and lawmakers in Israel. Just for your information, the gaps in economic and social standing in Israel between Jews and Arabs is smaller than in Denmark--are you going to now call Denmark a racist state?
Second, Israel is not de-facto undemocratic, since it does not and has not every intended officially to incorporate the territories into its borders. Until 1988 Peres was negotiating with Hussein of Jordan to take back the West Bank, and since then Israel has been negotiating with one representative or another. So, by matter of process, there is no de-facto non-democracy. Until 1988 Palestinians were quasi-Jordanian subjects in the West Bank, and since 1994 they have been under the authority of the PA, where they were supposed to have democratic rights according to Oslo.
Last, Zionism must be defined outside of the historic sphere. Just as Zionism could not be properly defined by the pogroms or the Holocaust, Zionism cannot be defined neither by terrorism nor by occupation. It is our role, as the future of the Jewish people, to define Zionism as a mission for us beyond time and space, and goal to strive towards regardless of politics. And then, once we have this goal firmly in mind, we can deal with the practical.
Posted by: Ariel Beery at April 25, 2004 08:41 PMhey Ariel,
you imply that i called Israel a racist state by while I never did. even if i did hint to this or that characteristic of Israel, it will probably have more to do with its relation to non-Israeli palestinians than to the Israeli-Palestinians. Israeli-palestinians are too a great example for the fact that if you treat people as more or less human, you don't need to build walls around them and drop bombs from the sky on them.
You also write that israel is not de-facto undemocratic because it hasn't officialy annexed the territories. well, yes, officialy (that is - de juro) israel is democratic within the green lines. De facto - my argument is still valid.
And regarding your last point - Discussing Zionism outside of the historic sphere is like discussing it without mentioning the creation of the State of Israel in 1948. Moreover, if you want to talk about "metahistory" it would be much more appropiate to discuss judaism, not zionism.
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